home
***
CD-ROM
|
disk
|
FTP
|
other
***
search
/
Space & Astronomy
/
Space and Astronomy (October 1993).iso
/
mac
/
TEXT
/
SPACEDIG
/
V16_4
/
V16NO499.TXT
< prev
Wrap
Internet Message Format
|
1993-07-13
|
33KB
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 93 05:00:04
From: Space Digest maintainer <digests@isu.isunet.edu>
Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu
Subject: Space Digest V16 #499
To: Space Digest Readers
Precedence: bulk
Space Digest Fri, 30 Apr 93 Volume 16 : Issue 499
Today's Topics:
Abyss--breathing fluids
Astro FTP list - April issue
Astro FTP list - notes
Gamma Ray Bursters. WHere are they.
Gamma Ray Bursters. Where are they?
HST Servicing Mission Scheduled for 11 Days
Internet resources (2 msgs)
I want that Billion
Long term Human Missions (2 msgs)
Political banner in space
Single Launch Space Station
Space surveillance: what I really meant
temperature of the dark sky (3 msgs)
Vandalizing the sky. (2 msgs)
Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to
"space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form
"Subscribe Space <your name>" to one of these addresses: listserv@uga
(BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle
(THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 27 Apr 93 16:59:24 GMT
From: Dave Kappl <daveka@microsoft.com>
Subject: Abyss--breathing fluids
Newsgroups: sci.space
In article <1r8esd$lrh@agate.berkeley.edu> isaackuo@skippy.berkeley.edu wrote:
> Are breathable liquids possible?
>
> I remember seeing an old Nova or The Nature of Things where this idea was
> touched upon (it might have been some other TV show). If nothing else, I know
> such liquids ARE possible because...
>
> They showed a large glass full of this liquid, and put a white mouse (rat?) in
> it. Since the liquid was not dense, the mouse would float, so it was held down
> by tongs clutching its tail. The thing struggled quite a bit, but it was
> certainly held down long enough so that it was breathing the liquid. It never
> did slow down in its frantic attempts to swim to the top.
>
> Now, this may not have been the most humane of demonstrations, but it certainly
> shows breathable liquids can be made.
> --
> *Isaac Kuo (isaackuo@math.berkeley.edu) * ___
> * * _____/_o_\_____
> * Twinkle, twinkle, little .sig, *(==(/_______\)==)
> * Keep it less than 5 lines big. * \==\/ \/==/
This was on "That's Incredible" several years ago. The volume of liquid
the rat had to breath was considerably smaller than what a human would have
to breath, so maybe it is possible for a rat but not a human.
DaveTheRave
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 13:40:59 GMT
From: M{kel{ Veikko <pvtmakela@hylkn1.Helsinki.FI>
Subject: Astro FTP list - April issue
Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space
#
# A S T R O - F T P L I S T
# Updated 28.04.1993
#
# This is a short description of anonymous-ftp file servers containing
# astronomy and space research related material. I have included only those
# servers where there are special subdirectories for astro stuff or much
# material included into a general directories. This list is not a complete
# data set of possible places, so I would be very happy of all kind of notices
# and information depending on this listing.
#
# The newest version of this file is available via anonymous-ftp as:
#
# nic.funet.fi:/pub/astro/general/astroftp.txt
#
# There are also many mirror (copy) archives for simtel-20.army.mil (PC) and
# sumex-aim.stanford.edu (Mac) which are not included into this list. Only some
# of mirroring sites are listed.
#
#
# Veikko Makela
# Veikko.Makela@Helsinki.FI
# *Computing Centre of Univ. Helsinki*
# *Ursa Astronomical Association*
# Server, IP # Contents
# Directories
ames.arc.nasa.gov Spacecraf data and news,images,NASA data,
128.102.18.3 Spacelink texts,VICAR software,FAQ
/pub/SPACE
arp.anu.edu.au Images
130.56.4.90
/pub/images/nasa
atari.archive.umich.edu Atari
141.211.164.8
/atari/applications/astronomy
archive.afit.af.mil Satellite software,documents,elements
129.92.1.66
/pub/space
baboon.cv.nrao.edu AIPS document and patches,radioastronomy
192.33.115.103 image processing,FITS test images
/pub/aips
c.scs.uiuc.edu ROSAT,Starchart(PC)
128.174.90.3
/pub
ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz PC
130.216.1.5
/msdos/astronomy (*) overseas connections refused
chara.gsu.edu Electronical Journal of ASA, Journal of
131.96.5.10 ASA, SAC news
/
explorer.arc.nasa.gov Magellan, Viking and Voyager CDROMs
128.102.32.18
/cdrom
export.lcs.mit.edu XEphem distribution
18.24.0.12
/contrib/xephem
epona.physics.ucg.ie Some software, predictions, images,
140.203.1.3 FITS info, miscellaneous
/pub/astro
/pub/space
/pub/fits
fits.cv.nrao.edu FITS documents, OS support, sample data,
192.33.115.8 test files, sci.astro.fits archive
/FITS
ftp.cicb.fr Images
129.20.128.27
/pub/Images/ASTRO
ftp.cco.caltech.edu Astronomy magazine index 1991
131.215.48.200
/pub/misc
ftp.cs.tu-berlin.de PC,Amiga,Mac,Unix,images,general
130.149.17.7
/pub/astro
ftp.funet.fi PC,Mac,CP/M,Atari,Amiga,databases,Unix,
128.214.6.100 HP48,OS/2,texts,News,solar reports,images,
/pub/astro Satellite elements,FAQ
ftp.uni-kl.de iauc,Vista image reduction,asteroids
131.246.9.95
/pub/astro
garbo.uwasa.fi PC
128.214.87.1
/pc/astronomy
gipsy.vmars.tuwien.ac.at images
128.130.39.16
/pub/spacegifs
hanauma.stanford.edu Unix, satellite program, images
36.51.0.16
/pub/astro
/pub/astropix
hysky1.stmarys.ca ECU distribution
140.184.1.1
/pcstuff
idlastro.gsfc.nasa.gov IDL routines
128.183.57.82
/
iraf.noao.edu IRAF Software
140.252.1.1
/iraf
julius.cs.qub.ac.uk Space Digest
143.117.5.6
/pub/SpaceDigestArchive
rata.vuw.ac.nz Astrophysical software
130.195.2.11
/pub/astrophys
kilroy.jpl.nasa.gov Satellite elements,spacecraft info
128.149.1.165
/pub/space
ns3.hq.eso.org Test images, Standards
134.171.11.4
/pub/testimages
/pub/standards
nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov HST,IUE,Astro-1,NSSDCA info,Spacewarn,
128.183.36.23 FITS standard
/
plaza.aarnet.edu.au images,docs,Magellan
139.130.4.6
/graphics/graphics/astro
/magellan
pomona.claremont.edu Yale Bright Star Catalog
134.173.4.160
/YALE_BSC
pubinfo.jpl.nasa.gov JPL news, status reports, images
128.149.6.2
/
ra.nrl.navy.mil Mac
128.60.0.21
/MacSciTech/astro
rascal.ics.utexas.edu Mac
128.83.138.20
/mac
rigel.acs.oakland.edu PC
141.210.10.117
/pub/msdos/astronomy
rusmv1.rus.uni-stuttgart.de Atari
129.69.1.12
/soft/atari/applications/astronomy
simtel20.army.mil PC,CP/M
192.88.110.20
/msdos/educ
/cpm
sol.deakin.oz.au garbo.uwasa.fi c.
128.184.1.1
/pub/PC/chyde/astronomy
solbourne.solbourne.com some PC programs
141.138.2.2
/pub/rp/as-is/astro
stardent.arc.nasa.gov Martian map
128.102.21.44
/pub
stsci.edu HSTMap(Mac),HST info
130.167.1.2
/Software
sumex.stanford.edu Mac
36.44.0.6
/info-mac/app
sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de PC,misc
129.206.100.126
/pub/msdos/astronomy
techreports.larc.nasa.gov NASA Langley technical reports
128.155.3.58
/pub/techreports/larc
tetra.gsfc.nasa.gov FITSIO subroutines
128.183.8.77
/pub
unbmvs1.csd.unb.ca Space geodesy,solar activity info
131.202.1.2
pub.canspace
vmd.cso.uiuc.edu Weather satellite images
128.174.5.98
/wx
world.std.com PC; source codes
192.74.137.5
/pub/astronomy
xi.uleth.ca Solar reports,auroral activity forecast
142.66.3.29 maps,solar images,x-ray plot,coronal
/pub/solar emission plots
# Some abbreviations:
#
# c = copy (mirror) of other archive
# -----
# My other e-communication projects:
# * E-mail contact addresses of interest groups in amateur astronomy
# * European astronomy and space-related bulletin boards
# * E-mail catalogue of Finnish amateur astronomers
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 13:37:39 GMT
From: M{kel{ Veikko <pvtmakela@hylkn1.Helsinki.FI>
Subject: Astro FTP list - notes
Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space
Hello, All!
I apologize, I haven't published my astro FTP list since March.
Now I haven't tested all the sites included into the list. I
would notified all the people, you have stored some older issues
of my, there are now lots of changes. Many sites have gone away:
They either do not exist any more or all the astro stuff have
removed.
The job keep this list is very hard, so all the notes and informat-
ion of changes, new sites, new contents etc. is welcome.
I would thank all the net people who give me information for the
newest version.
regards,
Veikko Makela
Computing Centre
Univ. of Helsinki
F I N L A N D
------------------------------
Date: 28 Apr 1993 06:25:48 GMT
From: Ethan Bradford <ethanb@ptolemy.astro.washington.edu>
Subject: Gamma Ray Bursters. WHere are they.
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro
In article <1993Apr26.155915.8998@desire.wright.edu> jbatka@desire.wright.edu writes:
I assume that can only be guessed at by the assumed energy of the
event and the 1/r^2 law. So, if the 1/r^2 law is incorrect (assume
some unknown material [dark matter??] inhibits Gamma Ray propagation),
could it be possible that we are actually seeing much less energetic
events happening much closer to us? The even distribution could
be caused by the characteristic propagation distance of gamma rays
being shorter then 1/2 the thickness of the disk of the galaxy.
I believe the problem with this theory is that we see gamma-ray
sources at that energy range and their energy doesn't seem to be
significantly absorbed.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 01:21:00 GMT
From: David Ward <abdkw@stdvax.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Gamma Ray Bursters. Where are they?
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro
In article <1993Apr26.141114.19777@midway.uchicago.edu>, pef1@midway.uchicago.edu writes...
>BATSE, by having 8 detectors of its own, can do its own location determination,
>but only to within about 3 degrees (would someone at GSFC, like David, like
>to comment on the current state of location determination?). Having inde-
>pendent sightings by other detectors helps drive down the uncertainty.
>
Well, I'll avoid your question for now (got some learnin' to do) with a
promise to come back with more info when I can find it. I _do_ know that
BATSE is the primary instrument in the development of the all-sky map of
long-term sources. Given that fact, and the spacecraft attitude knowledge
of approx. 2 arcmin, we might be able to figure out how well BATSE can
determine the location (rotational) of a Gamma Ray burster from knowledge
of the all-sky map's accuracy. PR material for the other three instruments
give accuracies on the order of "fractions of a degree", if that's
any help.
Speaking of GRO, the net-world probably was happy to see that the preps
for orbit adjust appear to be going well. Our branch guy who's helping
out says that things have gone smoothly with the iso-valve preps and the
burns will take place in mid-June.
Anyway, I'm off to find out more. 'Be back when I get some info.
David W. @ GSFC
"I don't know nuthin' 'bout measurin' no Gamma Rays"
_Gone with the Wind_, paraphrased
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 14:16:06 GMT
From: Brian Day <bday@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: HST Servicing Mission Scheduled for 11 Days
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.space.shuttle,sci.astro
rdouglas@stsci.edu (Rob Douglas) writes:
>[...] But try to land a shuttle with that big huge telescope in the
>back and you could have problems. The shuttle just isn't designed to land
>with that much weight in the payload.
Is HST really _that_ much heavier than a Spacelab ???
bd
--
Brian Day bday@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov
New Technology, Inc. (205) 461-4584
Mission Software Development Division Opinions are my own -
------------------------------
Date: Thu 29 Apr 93 14:08:50-EST
From: STK1203@VAX003.STOCKTON.EDU
Subject: Internet resources
exit
------------------------------
Date: Thu 29 Apr 93 14:19:24-EST
From: STK1203@VAX003.STOCKTON.EDU
Subject: Internet resources
I am taking a course entitled "Exploring Science Using Internet".
For our final project, we are to find a compendium of Internet resources
dealing with a science-related topic. I chose Astronomy. Anyway, I was
wondering if anyone out there knew of any interesting resources on Internet
that provide information on Astronomy, space, NASA, or anything like that.
THANKS!
KEITH MALINOWSKI
STK1203@VAX003.Stockton.EDU
P.O. Box 2472
Stockton State College
Pomona, New Jersey 08240
------------------------------
Date: 28 Apr 1993 15:17:35 GMT
From: Doug Mohney <sysmgr@king.eng.umd.edu>
Subject: I want that Billion
Newsgroups: sci.space
In article <C663u5.IKC@zoo.toronto.edu>, henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes:
>>... C'mon. Allen is telling us how cheap we can get improved this
>>or that...
>
>Sure, you can get a heavylift launcher fairly cheap if you do it privately
>rather than as a gummint project. But we're still talking about something
>that will cost nine digits per launch, unless you can guarantee a large
>market to justify volume production.
"Let's make a deal!" If you're going to put up a billion, I'd want to budget
the whole sheebang for $450-600 million. If I have that much money to throw
around in the first place, you betcha I'm going to sign a contract committing
to volume production...
Software engineering? That's like military intelligence, isn't it?
-- > SYSMGR@CADLAB.ENG.UMD.EDU < --
------------------------------
Date: 27 Apr 1993 20:17:21 -0700
From: Ken Hayashida <khayash@hsc.usc.edu>
Subject: Long term Human Missions
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.space.shuttle,sci.astro
Mike Adams suggested discussions on long-term effects of spaceflight
to the human being. I love this topic, as some of you regulars know.
So, having seen Henry's encouraging statement about starting to talk
about it; I shall.
I feel that we as a community of people have unique resources
to deliver to the world a comprehensive book which can elaborate
on the utility of spaceflight to fields which are as divergent
as medical intensive care, agriculture, environmental protection, and
probably more. I do not believe that the general public understands
the impact of spaceflight on the whole of society. In the absence
of such knowledge, we see dwindling support of the world's space effort.
I believe that we as a group have the responsibility to not only
communicate amongst ourselves, but also with others through print media.
A well-orchestrated and technically oriented analysis of life science
variables required to support long-duration spaceflight (like long
expenditions to the moon or Mars) would be entertaining and educational
to the general public. The objective of such an effort would be to
compile resources and publications from accepted scientific and technical
journals which would address each major life science area. In addition,
ideas for further research and development could be put forward for
the general public to ponder...allowing the general public to take
part in the excitement of exploration.
Individuals interested should be willing to devote an hour per week
to running literature searches and finding journal articles. In addition,
we need to obtain the assistance of personnel from within the halls
of NASA and industry.
I have appreciated the positive responses to date and I am personally
eager to start this project. Perhaps we could start with debate regarding
how best to grade the viability of various technologies for application
to spaceflight.
ken
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 13:31:01 GMT
From: Robert Kaye <rek@siss81>
Subject: Long term Human Missions
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.space.shuttle,sci.astro
Ken Hayashida (khayash@hsc.usc.edu) wrote:
: Mike Adams suggested discussions on long-term effects of spaceflight
: to the human being. I love this topic, as some of you regulars know.
: So, having seen Henry's encouraging statement about starting to talk
: about it; I shall.
: I feel that we as a community of people have unique resources
: to deliver to the world a comprehensive book which can elaborate
: on the utility of spaceflight to fields which are as divergent
: as medical intensive care, agriculture, environmental protection, and
: probably more. I do not believe that the general public understands
: the impact of spaceflight on the whole of society. In the absence
: of such knowledge, we see dwindling support of the world's space effort.
Just a few contributions from the space program to "regular" society:
1. Calculators
2. Teflon (So your eggs don't stick in the pan)
3. Pacemakers (Kept my grandfather alive from 1976 until 1988)
p.s. To all the regular contributors to sci.space.news and
sci.space.shuttle, thanks for all your hard work keeping us informed
as to the doings down in NASA and other space-type agencies. I don't
have much time to read USENET, but I ALWAYS read these two groups....
--
Robert E. Kaye Asst. Sys Admin Surgical Information Systems
Rush-Presbyterian-St. Luke's Medical Center Chicago, IL USA
Internet: rek@siss81.rpslmc.edu Voice: (312) 942-5891
FAX: (312) 942-4228
_____ _____
/ ^ ^ \ / _ _ \ Support your local Community Theater Groups...!
| o o | | o o |
| \_/ | | /-\ | St. Marcellene's Church in Schaumburg Il. presents:
\___/ \___/ "Meet Me in St. Louis" opening April 30th.
------------------------------
Date: 27 Apr 1993 17:53:38 GMT
From: Jeff Bytof - SIO <u1452@penelope.sdsc.edu>
Subject: Political banner in space
Newsgroups: sci.space
I propose that PepsiCo, Mcdonalds and other companies could put
into orbit banners that have timely political messages, such as,
"Stop the slaughter in Bosnia!"
, etc.
-rabjab
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 21:44 GMT
From: Karl Dishaw <0004244402@mcimail.com>
Subject: Single Launch Space Station
Andy Cohen <Cohen@ssdgwy.mdc.com> writes:
>the Single Launch Core Station concept. A Shuttle external tank and solid
>rocket boosters would be used to launch the station into orbit. Shuttle
>main engines would be mounted to the tail of the station module for launch
>and jettisoned after ET separation.
Why jettison the SSMEs? Why not hold on to them and have a shuttle
bring them down to use as spares?
Karl
sold my soul to Uncle Sam . . . now marked down for resale.
------------------------------
Date: 27 Apr 93 17:17:25 PST
From: thomsonal@cpva.saic.com
Subject: Space surveillance: what I really meant
Newsgroups: sci.space
Thanks to the people who have answered here and in email to my
question about which countries engage in space surveillance.
Unfortunately, I apparently didn't make the meaning of the message
clear, since most replies have addressed satellite reconnaissance,
rather than space surveillance
What I meant was _not_ which countries use satellites to look at
the Earth (satellite reconnaissance) , but _was_ which countries have
programs to detect and track (i.e., determine the orbital elements of)
satellites as they pass overhead (space surveillance).
The US uses missile-defense radars, supplemented by a fascinating
quasi-radar operated by the Navy, to do this for satellites in LEO, and
electrooptical systems for objects at altitudes above 5,000 km or so.
The FEE, I understand, does much the same thing.
Amateur satellite observers use eyeballs, binoculars, stopwatches
and PCs for objects out to around 1500 km, enabling them to keep track
of satellites for which, ah, official element sets aren't available.
See the fascinating books by Desmond King-Hele for details, as well as
the files in the molczan directory on kilroy.jpl.nasa.gov. The
material posted in my previous message suggests that Japan engages in
optical and radar space surveillance to a modest degree, and it may be
that other countries do also.
Which was the question I meant to ask: who are they, how do they do
it, and why do they do it?
Allen Thomson SAIC McLean, VA
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, yes: I don't speak for SAIC.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 04:05:40 GMT
From: Tom Van Flandern <metares@well.sf.ca.us>
Subject: temperature of the dark sky
Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space
henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes:
> Does anyone have a reference (something I can look up, not just your own
> recollections -- I have a few of those myself) on the temperature of the
> (night) sky as seen from space?
You'll find that in Allen, C.W., "Astrophysical Quantities", Athlone
Press, Dover, NH, 3rd edition, pp. 268-269 (1973). To the accuracy it can
be calculated (see specific references in Allen about how it is
calculated), the temperature is 3 degrees K.
Lots of people have remarked on this temperature. The first may have
been in Eddington's book, "Internal Constitution of Stars", Ch. 13 (1926;
reprinted 1986), where he gives the "temperature of space" as 3 degrees.
The source of this temperature is the radiation of starlight.
> My dim recollection is that the net effective temperature is
> substantially higher than that of the MBR, once you figure in things like
> stars and the zodiacal light, but I'd like numbers.
To the accuracy of measurement, it's the same temperature. Some of us
think this may not be a coincidence. -|Tom|-
--
Tom Van Flandern / Washington, DC / metares@well.sf.ca.us
Meta Research was founded to foster research into ideas not otherwise
supported because they conflict with mainstream theories in Astronomy.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 93 20:29:17 PDT
From: Erik Max Francis <max@west.darkside.com>
Subject: temperature of the dark sky
Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space
henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes:
> Does anyone have a reference (something I can look up, not just your own
> recollections -- I have a few of those myself) on the temperature of the
> (night) sky as seen from space?
The temperature of intergalactic space (or intercluster or
intersupercluster space) would be very, very close to the microwave
background temperature, 2.73 kelvins. I recall that in interstellar
space in our neighborhood of the galaxy it's something like 4 K.
Is that what you were looking for?
Erik Max Francis, &tSftDotIotE ...!apple!uuwest!max max@west.darkside.com __
USMail: 1070 Oakmont Dr. #1 San Jose, CA 95117 ICBM: 37 20 N 121 53 W / \
If you like strategic games of interstellar conquest, ask about UNIVERSE! \__/
-)(- Omnia quia sunt, lumina sunt. All things that are, are lights. -)(-
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 00:22:14 GMT
From: Stupendous Man <richmond@spiff.Princeton.EDU>
Subject: temperature of the dark sky
Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space
(Henry Spencer) writes:
> Does anyone have a reference (something I can look up, not just your own
> recollections -- I have a few of those myself) on the temperature of the
> (night) sky as seen from space?
>
> Note, I am *not* talking about the temperature of the Microwave Background
> Radiation. There are more things in the sky than just the MBR; what I'm
> after is total blackbody temperature -- what a thermal radiator would see,
> disregarding (or shielding against) the Sun and nearby large warm objects.
Henry, if I read you correctly, you may be asking "If I put a blackbody
in interstellar space ('disregarding the Sun and nearby large warm objects'),
what termperature will it reach in thermal equilibrium with the ambient
radiation field?"
If that's the case, let me point out that interstellar dust and
molecules provide many instances of things that are, well, not-too-far
from being blackbodies. Many different observations, including IRAS
and COBE, have determined that interstellar dust grain temperatures
can range from 40K to 150K. You might look in a conference proceedings
"Interstellar Processes", ed. D. J. Hollenbach and H. A. Thronson, Jr.,
published in 1987. Try the articles by Tielens et al., Seab, and
Black.
Inside the disk of the galaxy, the temperature varies quite a bit
from place to place (how close are you to the nearest OB association,
I would guess). Outside the galaxy, of course, things aren't so
varied.
I hope this is what you were looking for....
--
----- Michael Richmond
"This is the heart that broke my finger." richmond@astro.princeton.edu
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 09:34:30 BST
From: Greg Stewart-Nicholls <nicho@vnet.IBM.COM>
Subject: Vandalizing the sky.
Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space
In <C65FDw.E8E@news.cso.uiuc.edu> George F. Krumins writes:
>According to this reasoning there are no rights, at least none that I can think
>of....
>
You've got it. What you regard as a right, someone else will regard
as a privilege. Followups to some generic ethics and morality
newsgroup ....
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Nicholls ... : Vidi
nicho@vnet.ibm.com or : Vici
nicho@olympus.demon.co.uk : Veni
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 12:48:13 GMT
From: Doug Loss <loss@fs7.ECE.CMU.EDU>
Subject: Vandalizing the sky.
Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space
In article <1993Apr27.174622.1@stsci.edu> hathaway@stsci.edu writes:
>In article <C65LJ5.5Az@fs7.ece.cmu.edu>, loss@fs7.ECE.CMU.EDU (Doug Loss) writes:
>> I didn't want to quote all the stuff that's been said recently, I
>> just wanted to add a point.
>>
>..
>> then enforces those rights for them. Here in the U.S., the constitution
>> provides a "Bill of Rights" from which most if not all legal rights are
>> considered to derive. I'm sure that most other countries have
>
>These seem hardly like the groups to discuss this in, but HUH???
>All legitimate power to enforce these rights derives from the consent
>of the governed, not from no steenkin' piece of paper.
>
We don't disagree on this. All I said was that a right is whatever
you or somebody acting for you can enforce. The Bill of Rights didn't
come into effect until it was ratified by the states (and indirectly,
the people); from that point it defined legal rights. "Common law"
rights are vague and situational; that's why the people insisted on a
Bill of Rights in the Constitution, spelling out exactly what they
demanded from the government. Legitimate or illegitimate, power is
power. That's why the federal government can force states to grant
their citizens rights they don't wish to: In a slugging match, the feds
win. Period.
And you're right, this doesn't belong in sci.space. I've said my
peace. No more frome me on rights (at least not here).
>Most gracious regards,
>WHH
Doug Loss
loss@husky.bloomu.edu
------------------------------
End of Space Digest Volume 16 : Issue 499
------------------------------